If statements from the president-elect, Major-General
Muhammadu Buhari, are to be believed, the incoming administration, to be
inaugurated on May 29, will hit the ground running. Buhari says he intends to
put together a small cabinet that may go into action even before the
swearing-in. In a nutshell, he speaks on the shape of things to come in this
interview.
There has been an
influx of defectors from the ruling People’s Democratic Party, PDP, to your
party, APC, since after your victory at the polls. Many think the development
may destabilise the APC. How do you intend to manage the situation?
I think this is a question meant for the party. I wish John
Oyegun was here to answer you because we have a system. Just because I am the
presidential candidate and the president-elect, I don’t think the system has
allowed me to usurp the power of the party executives. But, certainly, in a
multi-party democratic system, fundamentally, it is the number that matters for
the people. But for the party, what matters is the ability to manage the number
so that the majority will have its way and there will be justice. No matter
what happens to the PDP by May 29, I assure you or I assure them through you
that there will be justice in the APC.
A new government, which
you will head, will soon be inaugurated. Can you tell us what criteria you will
be using in selecting those who you will work with?
It is a difficult time for Nigerians as you all know. I have
said it in the past that, in the last 16 years, Nigeria has never realised the
amount of revenue it received. The price of a barrel of crude oil rose to about
140 dollars and then crashed to about 50 dollars. During the 16 years, we know
what happened to some big companies that employ a lot of Nigerians and give
them training facilities like the Nigeria Airways, Nigeria National Shipping
Line.
Even Nigeria Railway is managing to be on paper with some refurbished
engines moving from Lagos to Ibadan and a few other places. If you go to their
stations all over the country, you will realise that they are in a terrible
shape. The important thing in a country with a huge population of youths with
more than 60 percent of them under the age of 30 who are unemployed is that you
need these institutions to give jobs and training to them. It is very
disappointing that the PDP government virtually failed to use those resources to
grow the economy.
I think the worst thing is the lack of accountability and the
terrible budgetary system. Imagine that over 90 percent of Nigerian budget is
on recurrent. How can you sustain development in a country like Nigeria with
only about 10 percent of your income? Things just have to change. There must be
more money available for infrastructure, for investment in getting the
factories back, employment and getting goods and services for the population. I
think the sins of PDP will be coming out for several years to come.
Do we expect a
government of national unity?
Again, you want me to encroach on the party’s main power.
Even if I, as president-elect, want to form a broad based government, I think
that the executive of the party will have some influence on that decision. So,
for me to maintain a good rapport with the leadership of the party, I want to
keep your question in abeyance until further notice.
The 2015 elections did
not go without pockets of violence here and there. Does that strike you in any
way?
I think there are less disruptions in the second leg of the
general elections on April 11 than we had during the presidential and National
Assembly elections. I hope it was as a result of the bandwagon effect because
APC had the upper hand during the first leg of elections. But what happened in
the South-South and the South-East cannot be compared to what happened on April
11.
What I saw was that there was a few ballot snatching in some
local government areas of Bayelsa State and a few disruptions in Adamawa, but that
is nothing near what happened on March 28. I don’t think what happened on 11 is
up to 25 percent of what happened on March 28?
I think that after the elections, both parties, APC and PDP, will
perhaps make their representations to INEC or the courts and then more details
will emerge. Maybe we had less infractions on April 11 because the turnout was
much lower. Maybe the people just wanted a president and once they got one,
they just walked away. They are Nigerians and there is nothing we can do, but to
convince them that they have to use this weapon which is the permanent voter
cards (PVCs)
Reports from Rivers and
some states on April 11 indicated violence. How do you feel about this?
I think we should allow INEC to give its comprehensive
report. Meanwhile, as you mentioned in some of the states, especially in Rivers
and Lagos, the two parties slugged it out. I think we have to take our time and
let us get as much report as possible in accordance with the Electoral Act. I
personally want to be legal about this so that people will appreciate that we
believe in a system. What we need to do is to modify the system according to
the law if we don’t like it, and no one should come out and do to the system
whatever he likes. For what happened in Lagos, I think that for whatever
political reason, the PDP wanted to have Lagos by all means.
I have a lot of respect for the governor of Rivers State for
his courage. At a certain time, the Commissioner of Police virtually hijacked
the state and the governor was virtually sentenced to the streets fighting
thugs without law enforcement agents while the Constitution makes it very clear
that the governor is the Chief Security Officer of the state.
So, a lot of lawless acts of the PDP are on record and we
intend to make the PDP understand it and make sure that, according to the law,
those who are responsible for that are taken to the court and properly charged.
We are in this system because we believe in it and we want it to stabilize
because it is good for our country. If Nigerians have the confidence that their
votes count, then they will mind their business and I assure you that there
will be more security in the country.
But when people feel that they are abandoned, then they will
resist. I think that by nature, human beings are rebels especially in Nigeria.
You must try and placate them, convince them and show them that their rights
are respected or you will not have peace. On what we hear about the money that
changed hands, it would have been impossible for APC to win anything in this
country because we don’t have the treasury in our pocket. There was no amount
of money that could convince Nigerians this time around.
A lot of them took the money and did exactly what their
conscience wanted them to do, while some even returned the money. Somehow,
Rivers and Lagos were seen as strategic to the PDP. Otherwise, how could APC
have a marginal 100,000 votes over APC in Lagos which is virtually the capital
of the APC in the South- West? A lot of
things will come out, but we want to do it basically on facts which can be
verified and quantified.
To some extent, the
general elections are seen by many to be credible. Will you try to retain the
INEC Chairman to build on the successes recorded even though he said he wouldn’t
accept another term of office?
I think Prof. Jega knows exactly what to do. He has already
said that he is not going to accept a renewal of his tenure in June. I believe
that he has learnt enough and will submit a comprehensive hand over notes some
of which he seems to have written. At the last National Council of States
meeting, he submitted a document of INEC activities right from the 2011 general
elections to date with attachment showing the personnel trained, acquisition of
election materials, the distributions, security, among others, and I don’t
think that such that report can be faulted.
In fact, INEC was forced to accept the six weeks extension by
the Office of the National Security Adviser. Luckily, those six weeks were
accommodated within the constitutional time limit within which election must
hold. The law says election must hold 30 days before 29th of May. So, INEC did
not have much trouble to agreeing to the six weeks extension. As people say, it
has come to pass.
For many years,
Nigerians have been clamouring that something be done to punish those involved
in election rigging. The Uwais Committee recommended a special court to try
electoral offenders, but government has refused to implement that
recommendation. Will your government set up a special court to try electoral
offenders?
No matter how you the media try, you will not catch me
undermining the authority of the party. I will look for understanding and
cooperation from the National Assembly when a change of the Constitution or the
Electoral Act is necessary. So for me to make up my mind here and later try to
lobby is out of it because, some of them, if they are very hard, they will give
me a tough time.
I will say that I haven’t read the Uwais Report, but l have
read a few extracts from newspapers. I think it is a good thing and we will
encourage it. But we need to get a comprehensive report from the field. The
running battle in Rivers, South-East and South-South, especially by Governor
Amaechi, Rochas Okorocha and governor of Edo state with INEC officials and law
enforcement agencies and the army is
remarkable and I think it has to be totally exposed so that Nigerians will know
which of the law enforcement agencies and at what levels is undermining the
Constitution of Nigeria because the Electoral
Act is derived from the Constitution of the country so that, in future,
those who are in position will know that they are not above the law. I think
that is what will bring more stability into the system. In view of that, I will
try and work with the National Assembly to make sure that we do something about
it.
There are speculations
that looting of public treasury is ongoing in the land. What do you intend to
do to check this problem?
I will like to work within the system because we believe in
it. I have just told you about three governors and the battle they have with
law enforcement agents in their states. We discussed and I advised them to try
and document these things so that they can be taken before the court and we
will make sure that we register the cooperation of the court so that people who
work against the law are prosecuted, especially those who have lost their
immunity because this is the best way to stabilize the system.
People must not benefit from being lawless. You can’t be in a
position by virtue of the Constitution, subvert the Constitution and continue
to enjoy the privileges offered by the Constitution. I don’t think that will be
acceptable by the APC. So, whether you are in the opposition or government, you
have to behave yourself. I think that is the way we can make progress.
APC preaches
transparency and accountability. But a lot of people with apparent questionable
characters are moving into the APC. Don’t you think they will also pollute the
APC?
For those that are coming into the APC, I have no fear
because we have our party structure. The fact that you were a party Chairman or
you were a minister before you joined the APC, we appreciate the fact that you
remain relevant in your immediate locality. But when it comes to the centre,
there is equality in the way the government will handle you.
If we win majority of members of the National Assembly and
House of Assembly in the states, it means that it is with the agreement of
their constituencies that the Federal Government has the power that it has. If
the Federal Government is insisting on accountability and being responsible,
even if they go back to their constituencies, there is nothing they can do
about the decision of the government. We are banking on that. I will give you an
example of my state, Katsina.
In 2011, the CPC won all the senatorial seats and 13 out of
the 15 House of Representatives seats but lost the governorship. Who did the
election? Did people from space come to do the election? That is the bad thing
about lack of cohesion in a party. Leadership at all levels must work in
concert. Otherwise, what Katsina State suffered, any state or the centre can
suffer same. Those who were chief executives from local government, to states
will be encouraged to work together.
So, those that are coming in, I hope they will accept that
they are coming to join those who succeeded and they should cooperate with
them. They can’t come and say that because they were once ministers under PDP,
they will join APC and become ministers the following month or so. I don’t
think that it will be acceptable even by their constituencies.
You introduced War
Against Indiscipline, WAI, as the military Head of State in 1984 to fight
indiscipline. Years after, the cankerworm has remained? How do you intend to
handle this?
I will mention how it came about. When we had our first
Supreme Council meeting and governors were appointed, in my office, it was only
me and the late Tunde Idiagbon, we discussed and agreed that the main problem
of Nigeria was indiscipline. If we could get majority of Nigerians to accept,
which ever level they were, we will make a lot of progress. I could recall that
I advised that we should go to the Ministry of Information because there were a
lot of people with first degree, masters and Ph.D who were sociologists and
criminologists just warming their seats.
They should get together and come up with a programme that
will last for years and not just for six months and fizzle out. That was how we
came about WAI. It was very well thought out. It was a military system. In
democracy, people want a lot of freedom, but if they see the restraint in
advanced democracies in Europe and America, they will realise that discipline
is forced on people. There are things that, no matter how much you want to do
them, you can’t do them.
I think that we have suffered enough as a people and I think
that people are more prepared to behave properly now. About two years ago, I
made some remarks in Hausa and people felt, now, some senior civil servants who
are Directors either at the state or federal can’t educate four children
because the level of education has gone down so much. Those that can afford
will rather send their children to Ghana or Sudan and those who can afford it
more send theirs to America and Europe because the educational system in Nigeria
has virtually collapsed.
Therefore, we feel that, by voting APC into power, Nigerians
are placing confidence in us. On security, economy, especially unemployment and
corruption, I believe that Nigerians will give us the understanding to make
sure that we get our priorities right. Education is going to be very important
because when you educate the people, you solve half of your problems because
there is a level that an educated person will not accept. But when people are
sentenced to illiteracy, when they are exposed to all manner of social vices
such as ethnicity and religion so that people don’t move forward, they are used
to fight themselves.
During your campaigns
you promised to declare your assets if elected. Now that you have been elected,
will you stick to your position?
I made a statement which has not been correctly captured by
the media. I said that our generation, from the Murtala, made sure that those
who had appointments must declare their assets and this was later articulated
in the Constitution.
It is up to government to make sure that those who borrow
money to build a house and end up with another house somewhere else with 50
bedrooms and 20 living rooms should explain to Nigerians how they got the
money. I could recall that I declared my assets three times. First was when I
got my first political appointment as governor of Borno State; secondly, when I
was leaving government to go to the United States War College. I declared my
assets then because I was closing my political chapter then technically. I
could recall that Gen. Jemibewon was the Adjutant General of the Nigerian Army
then. I had to declare my assets, deposit it there to be taken to court before
I was allowed to proceed to the United States for my course.
The third one was when I became Head of State. From General
Obasanjo down till now, those of us who were in the Supreme Military Council,
Council of State, Executive Council and even those who were Permanent
Secretaries, at the time we got our appointment, the courts should be made to
produce our declarations. So, all the noise about people being rich and nobody
is saying anything about it, why can’t you prick the conscience of the existing
government or are some of you part of the cover up?
There have been reports
that you promised to end the Boko Haram insurgency within two months, but your
media team reacted saying you never said so. Can you now set the record
straight?
I think I am too experienced in internal security to give two
months deadline on Boko Haram. I don’t think I would have made that mistake
because I tried to look at some of my experiences even when I was in uniform
with the rebels from Chad when I was GOC in Jos and with Maitatsine. So, for me
to say that when I come into office, I will get rid of Boko Haram in two
months, I don’t think I would have made that statement. I didn’t.
As I have mentioned on several occasions, we that have, at
one time or the other, wore Nigeria military uniform felt terribly embarrassed
that for six years, the military couldn’t bring order to 14 out of 774 local
governments in the country after Burma, Zaire, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Dafur
where Nigerian military earned respect internationally for their performance.
To fail to secure 14 out of 774 local governments. I still
can’t reconcile myself with that disgrace. We will try and work with our
neigbours such as Chad, Cameroon and Niger who are fighting Boko Haram for us.
Look at Chad helping Nigeria or Niger, or Cameroon itself. This nation has been
humiliated by the PDP. God willing, with our experiences, we will quickly
marshal support and we are asking Boko Haram to pack and go.
Can we know when your
Transition Committee would be in place?
We have started discussing about it. Personally, I will make
sure that it is not too big because if it is big, they will start thinking of
how to influence the choice of ministers either for themselves or those they
want to be ministers. But my idea is to get knowledgeable and experienced
technocrats who are really patriotic to study the handing over notes by
ministries and make recommendations.
I want them to be completely detached people who are
patriotic Nigerians, who are knowledgeable and experienced. If we get majority
of politicians involved it will lead to a lot of row and we may end up with
inconclusive recommendations which are not very helpful in our condition.
When I get it ready and before it is published, I will show
it to the leadership of my party and the terms of reference as well as the time
limit and the result of their work, we will quickly study before the
inauguration so that before we are sworn-in, we get into action.
No comments:
Post a Comment